Dr. Susan Blum (University of Notre Dame), a Renaissance Humanist (look it up) discusses her recent book, UNGRADING: Why Rating Students Undermines Learning (and what to do instead).  In this episode, Dr. Blum discusses problems associated with the long established system of grades and grading and discusses a recent movement, UNGRADING, which is a call to arms to provide learning environments that motivate student learning by changing the way students are evaluated.  If you have never heard of the concept of Ungrading this interview is likely to be disturbing, raising issues about our educational system that may challenge educators who have not questioned our model of student evaluation.  If you have some familiarity with Ungrading but have yet to incorporate some of these principles in your courses, we hope that this discussion might provide the support you need to dip your toes metaphorically in the “Ungrading waters”.  Lastly, if you are an expert in Ungrading please sit back and enjoy the discussion.  Perhaps you can pass this episode on to colleagues that might be ready to take the plunge.